Haven't rambled about this in a LONG while (if ever) and I feel bad there's been nothing here for a while AND I've seen a few discussions on the topic on the webs so I thought I'd ramble. CavegirlPoems started me thinking over on Tumblr. They do a nice job breaking down how a handful of games award XP and what that means for the game. Early D&D was simple. 1 GP of treasure = 1 XP. Delve. Carry it out. Improve. Repeat. Simple, but nailed it. Encumbrance mattered, as did depth of penetration. YOU THERE IN THE BACK! STOP GIGGLING! Vampire The Masquerade rewards you for being the kind of player the game wanted. AS CgP observes "It was the 90s, they were still working out how to be a narrative-driven game, but you can see where they were going with it." Monsterhearts. XP for engaging with a mechanic. I need more study. And finally they look at 5e. There are two systems at play here. First is combat. Violence gets you XP. Hence: Murder hobos. Second is milestone. You level up when the GM feels like it. And the game becomes James Wood finding Peter's candy. You're "rewarded for following the railroad and reaching pre-planned plot moments in a pre-scripted story. You either have no agency in the matter, or are rewarded for subsuming your agency to the will of the GM. (This pattern continues with inspiration rewards, which are given 'when the GM is entertained by you'.)"
Neither of those is satisfactory which is why we don't use them. We use the now seven year old Unearthed Arcana Three Pillar Rule. Pillar I: Exploration. 1 XP for every new 20 mile hex you travel through on a road or trail. 5 XP through the wilderness. And additional XP (10 - 40) for exploring important locations, whether tied to the "storyline" or not and for finding "big ticket" magic items. Pillar II: Combat. Based on CR of the opponent and level of the character. Awarded for killing, defeating and occasionally bypassing a creature or group of creatures, or a trap or problematic encounter. Pillar III: Social interactions. Awarded for positive interaction with influential NPCs. The Mayor of that small village that you schmoozed when you were 9th level? 5 XP. Positively influencing an NPC with cosmic reach? 20 XP or more.
So does this produce the game I want? After every session I send an email detailing the XP's earned. The party KNOWS that traveling from A to B along a trade rout for the first time will be worth 6 XP but nothing after that as they run back and forth. Cut a new 4-hex path through the wilderness? 20 XP. Decide to check out that haunted cemetery on the way to the Wizards Tower? Maybe 10 XP. Maybe nothing. Maybe it's a training ground for the BBG Evil Necromancer's mooks which might have a major impact on the storyline in coming months and worth 20 XP or more. And they've learned to talk to people. Find out who's in charge (or at least authoritative) and chat them up.
And that's kinda the game I want. Look under the rocks. Smell the flowers. Slay the evil beasties. Thoughts?
Although I can understand all of your arguments, I do slightly disagree. I kinda like 'milestone leveling', even though it suffers from the points you mentioned (and I really hadn't thought about before now, so thank you for that). I dunno. Ive got no good arguments to back that up, it just 'feels right'. And I'm not sure if I agree that milestone leveling necessarily leads to railroads; a imaginative DM might also be able to level the players for doing 'important stuff' in a sandbox without all things being pre-scripted. Oh, well.
ReplyDeleteFirst - thanx for stopping by. And for adding to the conversation. Glad I could provide some food for thought. I agree that a DM might level up in a sandbox for doing "important stuff" but doesn't that just make the important stuff station on the railroad? And if the players opt to head a different direction are they never to level up? Suppose the DM decides the party will level up IF they do A, B or C and again when they do D, E or F. What happens if they do F first? What happens if they skip the alphabet and go a different direction? At what point is a "milestone" no longer a milestone?
ReplyDeleteThanks for the reply. I guess that - however the DM chooses to award XP (even with the "Unearthed Arcana Three Pillar Rule" you mentioned) - it *might* end up in the players just going for the 'specific thing' that gets them the XP, regardless of what it is that the DM grants XP for. Regardless of if it is a railroad or sandbox. It seems to me that the 'formal' examples you gave for awarding XP (exploration, killing/defeating enemies, social interactions, etc.) could just as well be replaced with a DM making a choice of whether the (accumulative) actions count as a 'milestone', or not. Because what counts as a 'problematic' encounter ? Or 'influential' NPCs ? Or exploring 'important' locations ? That is just as much 'up to the DM', as determining what counts as a 'milestone' or not. Oh well, I guess were just not going to agree on this point. Agree to disagree ?
ReplyDeleteI think I don't disagree at all. And that was kinda the point of the post. The XP system chosen should produce the game you want. If you want a game that hits each of the pillars then you need to reward each of the pillars. If you want them riding the rails then you reward them for that. What counts as a problematic encounter? Any encounter that involves the roll of a die. An influential NPC? On that provides a plot hook (ie ANY NPC). Important location? Any location provided by a plot hook. If a plot hook is dropped in the woods and there's no one there to hear it does it make a sound? No. But it does if it's followed. Which gives the NPC influence and makes the location important.
ReplyDeleteBut sure. Let's agree to disagree. And as always, thanks for stopping by.